Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:01 pm Post subject: Existence of Ghosts Debate - Live Journal revisited
On October 31'st 2003, Ghost Hounds were featured in a story that aired on CNN and Headline News. In this story, Ghost Hounds founder Patrick Burns supported his belief in ghosts, citing one of the fundamental laws of physics - "...energy is neither created nor destroyed, but merely converted into another form. If this is in fact true, by definition 'something' should survive physical death of the human body."
One individual that saw the Ghost Hounds story on CNN created a debate on his Live Journal site asking his readers to comment their opinions about the existence of ghosts. Replies to the thread varied from extreme skepticism "Ghosts are nothing more than manifestations of superstitions created by ignorance."... to agnostic "I don't believe in ghosts, I don't disbelieve in ghosts either."
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however I wish to have a chance to rebut - especially when I see flaws in others logic. I have attempted to bring the debate to this forum; inviting those who were involved in the original thread on the Live Journal page.
It is not my intention to entice a flame war, but rather an intelligent, mature discussion with the hardened skeptics. Its my turn on the soap box. I have contacted them, I have invited them to participate and offer their rebuttal. I hope that atleast some of them will accept this invitation.
And finally, this forum is open to all registered users of this site. By all means - feel free to chime in with your own $.02 on any thread.
Patrick Burns
Founder, Ghost Hounds
"You can die, but you can't hide!"
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: To Felicia
Yep I hand picked the statements for this thread!
And actually, its a whole series of posts on the subject from different people. Surprisingly, very few of the posters in the thread supported the idea of ghosts possibly existing. To their credit, the skeptics all seem like reasonable, educated people. But you hit the nail on the head - IGNORANCE. I hate this "I've never seen a ghost and its just too 'easy' of an answer to be true." attitude. Again I ask why? GIVE ME SOME GOOD OPINIONS TO SUPPORT YOUR THEORY. So far I have seen none.
I agree - some of these skeptics need to study the subject first-hand before passing judgement. We arent talking about Uri Geller and spoon bending parlor tricks. Its well documented phenomena that has been observed all thruought history.
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: Debate?
Debate? What debate?
Give me 30 mins with a short walk in the local Cemetery and a hand held recorder and it will convert anyone.... Most persons that say ghosts are not real will not take 30 mins to see if there is anything to EVPs or photos of ghosts.
Ghost are real and I will prove it to anyone willing take the time....
Joined: Aug 05, 2004 Posts: 203 Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:01 pm Post subject:
Hi GhostGeek - I hesitate to throw myself into the fire so quickly but I have to agree that the defense of the soul using the first law of thermodynamics doesn't fly. Matter is not destroyed when someone dies, it is broken down into it's component parts. No net energy loss, no violation. While I believe that there is more in this heaven and earth than is dreamt of in the atheist's philosophy, I have to respectfully nix that argument from it's proof.
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:54 pm Post subject: Opinions
Alright, Ghostgeek, can't a person just have an opinion? There seems to be an invitation for people to voice their opinions here BUT in each of these threads where someone has done so, someone else has attempted to "convert" the skeptics. Just because a person has an opinion that may be more skeptical than someone else's doesn't mean they need to be converted or proved wrong. It kinda makes me a little too intimidated to even voice my own opinion.
Beth M _________________ Beth M aka Mauserwerke
I know I'm in my own little world - but it's OK. They know me here.
The way I see it is that people can either believe or not. It's not our place to convert disbelievers, because if they do not want to believe they won't, no matter how much evidence is shown to them. You have to have an open mind to accept the fact that you may be wrong...but there are many who are stubborn and refuse to believe. _________________ Where lovers but fade, love does not.......and Death has no dominion.
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:12 pm Post subject:
Loki wrote:
Matter is not destroyed when someone dies, it is broken down into it's component parts. No net energy loss, no violation.
While I tend to agree there is a small problem with your statement. A measured loss of weight occures at the moment of death. This net weight loss is only a few ounces, however it is real and verified. Give me a little time and I will find something on this.
[quote="mauserwerke"]Just because a person has an opinion that may be more skeptical than someone else's doesn't mean they need to be converted or proved wrong. It kinda makes me a little too intimidated to even voice my own opinion.
Quote:
Please don't feel this way. Always feel free to state your oppinion and though I may not agree with you my debate of it is never an attempt to sway you to my side. I only wish to express my point of view and hear yours as well.
_________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 965 Location: Lawrenceville
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject:
Mauser... I love a healthy debate about many issues. Please always feel free to discuss your beliefs here. It causes thought. Some of my favorite discussions and threads on the site concern several peoples opinions on differant topics. Sometimes they oppose and sometimes they don't. Nothing wrong in thought provoking conversations! Keep on keeping on!
Babs _________________ Only a mountain has lived long enough to listen objectively to the howl of a wolf. -Aldo Leopold
Alright, Ghostgeek, can't a person just have an opinion?
Absolutely. Can't a person have a friendly debate? (You did notice this particular forum is titled "Debate" right?) Can't a person retourt when what they believe might be POSSIBLE is called "fantastic mumbling" and "BS"?
I didn't attack anyone. What I said on CNN was taken out of context and debated in that chaps Live Journal without any ability for me to retourt (you have to pay for LJ subscription or get someone to "recommend" you for a free account) And by the time I came across the link to his LJ site, it was several weeks after the last post. I didn't want to kick a dead thread, so I copy/pasted some of the comments and invited those people to join the debate here (I'm still waiting for them to accept my invitation BTW . I mean as far as I'm concerned the cynics have yet to offer up a good argument against the existence of a soul. But I'm all ears if they want to.
mauserwerke wrote:
: There seems to be an invitation for people to voice their opinions here BUT in each of these threads where someone has done so, someone else has attempted to "convert" the skeptics.
Sorry. Thats not anyones intention here. We are not out to prove anything to anyone other than ourselves. These people offered up counter arguments to my statements from the CNN sound bite. I in turn retourted with my own arguments. Whats wrong with that?
Quote:
Just because a person has an opinion that may be more skeptical than someone else's doesn't mean they need to be converted or proved wrong.
AGAIN - no one is trying to "convert" anyone. I simply wanted a healthy debate with the cynics that are convinced ghosts don't exist. Yet you seem to insinuate that the skeptics for some reason deserve the final word. Why is that? If they believe in their point of view, they shouln't have a problem with someone offering up a rational argument against their opinions. Thats a healthy debate.
Quote:
It kinda makes me a little too intimidated to even voice my own opinion.
Beth M
Sorry you feel intimidated Beth. I think I was quite professional and restrained in my replies, especially after the semi-hostile nature of some of their replies in LJ. Everyone here is encouraged to post their own opinions - either for or against this topic. However per our posting rules, personal attacks are NOT tollerated, so you have nothing to fear.
So I'm sorry you don't agree with my desire to debate this facinating topic, but it is my right to, just as it is your right to not read anything I say. Its also your right to retourt with your own arguments, but please keep on topic - please do NOT continue to debate my desire to debate. LOL
So if you have good counter arguments, bring 'em! _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:24 pm Post subject:
Loki wrote:
Hi GhostGeek - I hesitate to throw myself into the fire so quickly but I have to agree that the defense of the soul using the first law of thermodynamics doesn't fly. Matter is not destroyed when someone dies, it is broken down into it's component parts. No net energy loss, no violation. While I believe that there is more in this heaven and earth than is dreamt of in the atheist's philosophy, I have to respectfully nix that argument from it's proof.
Hey Loki...
I don't know how this one slipped past me, but it did and I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner.
Firstly... remember I said energy - not matter - is neither created nor destroyed, but only converted into another form. Same holds true for matter of course, but there IS an important distinction between matter and energy.
One question for you... your psyche I.E. what makes you "you". Your ability to think, to reason, to remember, to have ambition, desire, etc etc etc.... everything that makes you human and not merely a bunch of cells dividing.
My question - would you agree with me when I say that the psyche is energy? _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 965 Location: Lawrenceville
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:
I just went and visited the original debate through the link in the beginning thread. Wow!
I have never ever ever never claimed to understand the science behind our energy or that of ghosts, or for that matter a lot of the geeky tech stuff that we discuss from time to time. A lot of times I may not even offer my opinion if I feel like I don't really understand. Though I have a 2 year degree in HUman Srvcs and Psychology (graduating with a 3.90 might I add ) I am not book smart in the traditional sense. I dont know my geography and I am horrible in math. But, and this is a big but , I have common sense. I know that we as humans are not so smart to know everything. And I know that just because I may not understand something it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
A few of the people on that debate really ticked me off! I couldnt believe how rude and vulgar one person in particular was. So closed minded. I thought of many nasty little names for him as I read. I wasnt mad that he didnt believe in ghosts. Thats ok. What got me was his smugness. Someone replied to him saying to prove there aren't ghosts, to which his reply was its not up to me to prove a negative....blah blah. The pain in the butt thing about people like that is that even if you said "Hey I saw a ghost" he would say we are crazy. So with people like him the only way you can ever prove it to him will be for him to die.....hmmmmm. LOL
Sadly, one of the things that interest me the most will most likely not be proven to exist. At least not in my lifetime.
I am a believer. 100%. I dont however believe that every orb is a ghost, or all things that go bump in the night....you get my drift. I want to rule out other possible causes. But dang! When you get and evp that is a voice of someone who was not there at the time you recorded and that voice responds logically to something you say....what the heck is that? When you take a photo and somethings appears in the pic shows a body or face or whatever that wasnt there....what the heck is that?
Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh! Sorry y'all. I know we are all friends here but I just got a bit worked up. And I cant help but hope that one day that one particular person gets the poop haunted out of him. Not for a long time. Just to make him open his closed mind.
Okay, stepping off of soapbox now...
Babs _________________ Only a mountain has lived long enough to listen objectively to the howl of a wolf. -Aldo Leopold
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:45 am Post subject:
While debates are very fun forms of entertainment, I would like to iterate a caution. Do not let your emotions get caught up in this. When emotions get involved then angry words can get exchanged and then feelings get hurt.
I also don’t want anyone to feel that I have hurt him or her. If I inadvertently hurt some one please let me know through a PM and I will be more than happy to publicly apologize through the BB.
Now on to the fun stuff, I am going to play devils advocate on this one because I do not believe we have enough non-believers to really get a debate going.
Ghostgeek said:
"Energy is never destroyed. It can only be converted. By definition, something must remain after physical death."
Now first key point the energy in the human body is stored in the form of chemicals. At the point of death these chemicals are still within the body and still contain the energy within them. This is why meats have energy to them, though actually fat has more energy than meat that is why it is fattening. Since the energy has not been lost or even changed form how does this fit this statement.
If you are referring to the active energy within the body at the time of death, then think on this the body does not become inactive at the time of death. Many of the organs continue to function for hours even days. The hair and fingernails continue to grow for months. The active energy in the body is going towards these processes.
Also if the soul were an energy field it could be easily detected and proven to exist with current technology. We can easily detect the full electromagnetic field.
The final point I can bring up in this is how can a free-floating energy field be bound together. By definition it would radiate out in all directions and dissipate as it struck and was converted to different forms by matter.
Feel free jump on this and run. _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Jun 16, 2004 Posts: 124 Location: Smyrna, Georgia
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:06 pm Post subject: Exsistence of Ghost Debate
Question: What form of energy causes your heart to continue beating and pumping blood to your lungs and through out your body?
When that energy leaves a body the heart stops functioning.
When the heart stops functioning then death of the body occurs.
Question: Where does the energy go after death, since it can not be created nor destroyed? _________________ from GrayGhost
"No secret is kept so close, as that between a rider and his horse!"
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 965 Location: Lawrenceville
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject:
Hey Wacky, I read your post and then reread mine. I hope I didn't sound like I was mad at anyone on this site. I had clicked on the link to that guys personal journal from another site. His rudeness and vulgarity really made me mad. His aloofness rubbed me the wrong way, obviously.
I love to debate and discuss possibilities. Though I am a believer I remain and always will be skeptical about our results, looking at any other possible non paranormal causes. But I really get worked up over total closed minded people who not only won't even listen to others thoughts and basically call them stupid.
I know I shouldnt let it bother me. Imagine how Id have reacted had I been silly enough to bother posting on his site. Ugh!
Babs _________________ Only a mountain has lived long enough to listen objectively to the howl of a wolf. -Aldo Leopold
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:21 am Post subject:
Answer: A combination of chemical energy from sugars is used to fuel the muscles and electro chemical impulses from the brain via the nervous system to time and control the pressure.
The energies are still in the body in the chemically stable form Sugars, Fats... _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:07 pm Post subject:
Wackywizjr wrote:
Answer: A combination of chemical energy from sugars is used to fuel the muscles and electro chemical impulses from the brain via the nervous system to time and control the pressure.
The energies are still in the body in the chemically stable form Sugars, Fats...
But clearly some form of "energy" has left the body at the moment of death. I wont deny the fact that the body itself represents potential energy - all organic matter does, but something is obviously no longer associated with the body when brain death occurs. What is this "spark" that keeps our heart beating... our nervous system functioning? I dont believe it can be just a simple chemical reaction, or life would be easy to recreate; add a touch of this amino acid, a dash of this complex sugar... Its this difficult to quantify or even detect energy that I believe represents the soul.
And it was pointed out earlier that if the "soul energy" was real, we should be able to detect it. To which I agree. But I also wonder if any serious study to detect an energy field leaving the body at the moment of death has ever been conducted... say with a terminally ill patient. I mean thats gonna be a tough one to approach a family with - "We know your loved one is about to die, so do you mind if we wire up their bed with a bunch of instruments and cameras to try and collect evidence of existance of the soul when the moment of death occurs?"
And while that would make for an interesting study, I know I could never sit there monitoring instruments; waiting for someone to die. Even if I didn't know them personally. That would just be way too depressing and sad. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:25 am Post subject:
ghostgeek wrote:
But clearly some form of "energy" has left the body at the moment of death.
What kind of energy could leave the body and remain cohesive? Energy by nature dissipates.
ghostgeek wrote:
I wont deny the fact that the body itself represents potential energy - all organic matter does, but something is obviously no longer associated with the body when brain death occurs. What is this "spark" that keeps our heart beating... our nervous system functioning?
How are you sure that the energy, This spark, has not been used up or that the mechanism of death doesn’t “ground” it out causing it to no longer exist as the same energy?
ghostgeek wrote:
I dont believe it can be just a simple chemical reaction, or life would be easy to recreate; add a touch of this amino acid, a dash of this complex sugar... Its this difficult to quantify or even detect energy that I believe represents the soul.
What makes you so sure that the soul is energy?
ghostgeek wrote:
And it was pointed out earlier that if the "soul energy" was real, we should be able to detect it. To which I agree. But I also wonder if any serious study to detect an energy field leaving the body at the moment of death has ever been conducted... say with a terminally ill patient. I mean thats gonna be a tough one to approach a family with - "We know your loved one is about to die, so do you mind if we wire up their bed with a bunch of instruments and cameras to try and collect evidence of existance of the soul when the moment of death occurs?"
Maybe we can get someone to volunteer. After all ghost hunters have been around a while, there should be some older individuals that would like to have this research done.
ghostgeek wrote:
And while that would make for an interesting study, I know I could never sit there monitoring instruments; waiting for someone to die. Even if I didn't know them personally. That would just be way too depressing and sad.
The instruments can monitor themselves.
(Now to let my true feelings on this show for a moment. I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I made a statement earlier in this thread.
wackywizjr wrote:
A measured loss of weight occures at the moment of death. This net weight loss is only a few ounces, however it is real and verified.
I believe the soul is physical not energy based. Ectoplasm is a substance not an energy.) _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:49 am Post subject:
Odd the internet treats the weight loss at the time of death to be an urban legend and yet the experiments were conducted by Duncan MacDougall. Google him and find some info. _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:50 am Post subject:
KonaWoman wrote:
Energy can be found in a number of different forms. It can be chemical energy, electrical energy, heat (thermal energy), light (radiant energy), mechanical energy, and nuclear energy.
There are only three basic types of energy, with limited exception all energies fall into these to categories;
Kinetic / Potential (The energy of movement.)
Electromagnetic (The radiated energies)
Electric (The conducted energy)
KonaWoman wrote:
Energy can be transformed into another sort of energy. But it cannot be created AND it cannot be destroyed. Energy has always existed in one form or another.
Actually mater can be turned to energy in several ways. The process of fusion in a star takes two Hydrogen atoms and fuses them together into a single Helium atom. However a Helium atom weighs slightly less than two Hydrogen atoms, the extra mass is directly converted to energy across the electromagnetic spectrum. It is also theorized at this point that if you pour enough energy into the splitting of a helium atom the process will reverse itself and the energy would be converted directly back into matter remaking the missing mass.
Oh and by the way lets not forget the third state of existence Plasma. Plasma is the state of being in which matter starts to act like energy but still has mass. This is a very interesting state. But can be discussed later if the need arises.
KonaWoman wrote:
Here are some changes in energy from one form to another.
Stored energy in a flashlight's batteries becomes light energy when the flashlight is turned on.
Basic but not bad.
KonaWoman wrote:
Food is stored energy. It is stored as a chemical with potential energy. When your body uses that stored energy to do work, it becomes kinetic energy.
And to heat
KonaWoman wrote:
If you overeat, the energy in food is not "burned" but is stored as potential energy in fat cells.
Making fat a very good energy food, even if it is not healthy for you.
KonaWoman wrote:
When you talk on the phone, your voice is transformed into electrical energy, which passes over wires (or is transmitted through the air). The phone on the other end changes the electrical energy into sound energy through the speaker.
Good.
KonaWoman wrote:
A car uses stored chemical energy in gasoline to move. The engine changes the chemical energy into heat and kinetic energy to power the car.
A toaster changes electrical energy into heat and light energy. (If you look into the toaster, you'll see the glowing wires.)
A television changes electrical energy into light and sound energy.
Heat energy moves in three ways: Conduction ,Convection ,Radiation
Actually this is an old fallacy, The only way heat can move is through radiation. Conduction is the radiation of heat through a solid substance. Convection is the movement of heated particles (Air) but for the heat to transfer to a different substance it must still radiate.
KonaWoman wrote:
Sure substance is energy therefor ectoplasm is energy
Matter is not energy. It can be converted to energy but it is not energy. Energy is and of itself not cohesive it will dissipate through natural processes to reach a neutral state. For energy to remain cohesive it must be contained by some form of matter. Your very eloquent statement of the laws of conservation of energy is very good. However you forgot the other basic law, Conservation of matter. When the energy is released from a battery the matter in the battery is not converted to energy, it releases the energy stored in it in the form of electricity. This is then converted into heat and light. _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
A minority of physicists accept it as real energy which we cannot directly sense since it is the same everywhere, even inside our bodies and measuring devices. From this perspective, the ordinary world of matter and energy is like a foam atop the quantum vacuum sea.
To understand this zero-point field (for short), consider an old-fashioned grandfather clock with its pendulum swinging back and forth. If you don't wind the clock , friction will sooner or later bring the pendulum to a halt. Now imagine a pendulum that gets smaller and smaller, so small that it ultimately becomes atomic in size and subject to the laws of quantum physics. There is a rule in quantum physics called the Heisenberg uncertainty principle that states (with certainty, as it happens) that no quantum object, such as a microscopic pendulum, can ever be brought completely to rest. Any microscopic object will always possess a residual random jiggle thanks to quantum fluctuations.
ghostgeek wrote:
I wont deny the fact that the body itself represents potential energy - all organic matter does, but something is obviously no longer associated with the body when brain death occurs. What is this "spark" that keeps our heart beating... our nervous system functioning?
Wackywizjr wrote:
[How are you sure that the energy, This spark, has not been used up or that the mechanism of death doesn’t “ground” it out causing it to no longer exist as the same energy?
It may very well not exist as the SAME energy, but must continue to exist in some form or another - it cant be merely "used up"
ghostgeek wrote:
I dont believe it can be just a simple chemical reaction, or life would be easy to recreate; add a touch of this amino acid, a dash of this complex sugar... Its this difficult to quantify or even detect energy that I believe represents the soul.
Wackywizjr wrote:
What makes you so sure that the soul is energy?
Because thoughts and feelings are electrical impulses in the brain. This can be measured.
Wackywizjr wrote:
(Now to let my true feelings on this show for a moment. I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I made a statement earlier in this thread.
wackywizjr wrote:
A measured loss of weight occures at the moment of death. This net weight loss is only a few ounces, however it is real and verified.
Wackywizjr wrote:
I believe the soul is physical not energy based. Ectoplasm is a substance not an energy.)
Perhaps it may be both? A VERY loosely packed (most of the time) group of atoms. More akin to a mist or vapor, which is why it can pass thru "solid" objects and we sometimes get the "ectoplasmic mist" in photos that no one could see with their eyes. But under the control of a very feeble energy field. If the soul has any semblence of memories or intelligence when disembodied, I believe that would require a presence of energy - just as our bodies do when we are alive. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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. I mean as far as I'm concerned the cynics have yet to offer up a good argument against the existence of a soul. But I'm all ears if they want to.
) I am not book smart in the traditional sense. I dont know my geography and I am horrible in math. But, and this is a big but 
, I have common sense. I know that we as humans are not so smart to know everything. And I know that just because I may not understand something it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
