Joined: Nov 05, 2007 Posts: 20 Location: Canton GA
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Theory on Elementals
I have a theory on elementals that could be in keeping with the Christian line of thought.It is said that elementals are not and never were animal or human in body, mind or spirit.Some say that they were derived from practicing black magic or a force left around from the Native Americans or PreHistoric peoples that lived in the area from long ago.They could or might be demons in deception.Part of being a demon is to deceive.Why not act, mimic or try to take the place of the wind, weather, trees or animal in the area that your trying to control or influence.What do you think?
Joined: Nov 05, 2007 Posts: 20 Location: Canton GA
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:39 am Post subject:
Let say your a demon and have been given what might be a independent command from the socalled big guy(satan)of yourself and some underling.Why not go out and screw with persons that would not or could not know anybetter.
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Tampa, FL
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject:
Interesting question and theory. I've always wondered what they were. I've heard of them referred to as demons, neutral nature spirits, or just manifestations of evil. I still don't know what to think about them. _________________
Joined: Feb 24, 2007 Posts: 151 Location: Near London UK
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:
Interesting theory doc.
But (and you knew I was gonna say that eh?) I do have another take on that theory.
It's all to easy to label things demonic these days I feel.
Religion is a complicated thing and I respect all of them as I hope you do mine.
Elementals can be good and bad as can man and dark and light ect ect ect...
Before man walked the earth energies aka fairys...wood sprites ect existed in some shape or form..The Druids and Native Americans and other nature based people harnest thier power and used it to build thier mythology and beliefs.
The Romans and Greeks had many gods and godesses as did the egyptions and Mayans..
Some used it for good and others trod the dark path...and then along came the Christians and threw things into a melting pot and rewrote the rule books of belief..
Satan or the Devil was Herne the Hunter (horned man...half man half Stag) the festivals and ritual of ancient Britain and europe and all over the world were demonised to make them scary and taboo...the reformation and the burnings came and went and came again....all to make people flock to this new religion and to read the bible.
Soon it became a sin to talk about magic or to become a herbal healer...most witches and druids died because their only crime was to love nature and want to help and heal people and animals..or they belived in the elementals.
Now I know that Liviticus says a lot of things about mediums and demons and other chapters say about worshiping false gods ..and I know they exist in some way shape or form...
But the Elementals or nature energies were around b4 we were...and for the best part stayed away from us...do you blame them?
What about man? We have changed and fiddled with nature and our eco system to such an extent , we have damaged our Earth beyond repair. The Weather is all over the place I could go on..,Nature spirits protect the mother earth...
And maybe "Demons" could and have influenced us via black magic..but for the best part that is caused by the desires and greed of men...
But to blame Elementals for everything thats a little unfair.
Its all to easy to blame mans behaviour and some mental illness on demonic oppression..
Very alarming as in most cases its not true...its VERY RARE for a total possession...yes there have been an increase in such cases..and do you know why?
Because of the lack of respect we show to the spirit world and our curiousity in ouija and the paranormal...shows on TV make it cool to go ghost hunting and to dabble...they dont however in most cases warn about repect and protection...for the humans and the energies.
Thats when the trouble starts..
The line blurs and becomes distorted and we use our faith to try and make sense of it...
The fact of the matter we as a whole should be on the same page...and respect for each others faiths should be paramount...when dealing with all things paranormal...
Wiccans and Pagans are not evil we worship many gods and goddesses..we harness the power of elementals for the best part good....
You take your beliefs as you want to ..some tread the path or light and some tread the path of dark...some so called Holy men can be horrificly greedy and corrupt...not by demonic influence for the most part its the human EGO that corrupts.
Lets not be so hasty to blame it on Evil or Demons as most Evil and demons are man made..and manifestations of mans need for power and greed...and in some cases symptoms of a chemical imbalance or mental illness.
Elelmentals for the best part are here to proctect the earth..
Just my humble opinion....as a nature loving pagan who does not walk the dark path!
I've got carried away again! But I'm very passionate about the subject!
Joined: Nov 05, 2007 Posts: 20 Location: Canton GA
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject:
Thank You for your passionate retort.I am sorry if it's offending anyone and their beliefs.My view is simple in alot of ways.In Genesis and parts of the Bible that talk about creation it said that the Heavens and I would think all that is in Heaven. That being the Angels were made first.Some time before the creation of man there was a Great Battle that divided Heaven and also Angels. God and good on one side and satan and evil on the other.Evil was cast out and sent to Earth etc.etc to do what ever until mankind showed up to be I guess what could be called evils new play toy.Part of their play is to pretend or to deceive men. Be it their claim to be good, evil or neutral.I would think a intellect being that was at one time in the presence what is Ultimate Greatness would be able to mimic them just to server their goals(Even if they were acts of kindness,greatness,shyness or neutrality) "Case in point" Look at all the evil that the Christian Churchs has done all these years past.Was that truly done for the good of man kind?NO it was done to promote the greed and lives for a few.Thats not being a true Christian.In stead of an eye for an eye, Being a Christian means to turn the other cheek.We all have free will to think and do as we please.I always thought the reason the Romans love to watch the Christian be eaten by the lions was because Christian would lay down and let the lions have their meals.Thank Again for your post I think you have put up a good other side to the subject. _________________ ORBS- Dust balls from heaven to aggravate the hell out of all us.
I gotta go home tonight and do some research up on my personal experiences with the paranormal to get into this conversation....but let me throw this at you.......Faries exist. They are elementals. The Christian Church says they are from the devil. Faries are a race unto themselves. They exist and have existed for many millenia. Are they evil? We know they exist because EVERY culture on EVERY continent on this Earth can name and describe them. AND......they also have thousands of years worth of documented lore recounting their habits in great detail!
Just to get you thinking. I have mounds of documentation and cited sources about the topic of elementals- I've had many personal encounters with many of the different types as well!
Joined: May 27, 2005 Posts: 108 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject:
In voodoo, elementals are created..in doing so the creator is responsible for all the actions of the elemental.
Elementals are created out of energy of fire, water air and earth. When the elemental is done serving the creator, it is very important that the creator to set a fixed life span, exact as to day, hour and how it is to happen. If, for expample this was not done, and the creator dies..the elemental will continue on with it's "life" mostly fueled by characteristics of the creator. Most often the negative traits of the creator. This being can rack up karma against the creator far after the creator has passed. Interesting stuff, huh?
Joined: Nov 05, 2007 Posts: 20 Location: Canton GA
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject:
A several of years ago I had the pleasure to read The Hobbit by JRR Tolkien. Then after that I started The Fellowship of the Ring, But Before I started book two(The Two Towers) I stopped to read Tolkiens biography writen by his son Christopher.I wasn't suprised that he was Catholic.But if you watched the movies a person might not have never guessed it.The reason I bring Him up is because a lot of this writen work is about Barrows,Elfs,Hobbits.Orcs,,Goblins and then there is Tree Beard the Ent.In alot of ways he could becalled a Nature Spirit in physical form.So I do under stand the point that maybe elementals being of those kind could be neutral spirits.If you compare the older philosophies to Christianity.Christianity is a newborn baby.I am not trying to convert anyone please believe me.At the end of the Bible it is written about the coming of a antichrist,But in the first Book of John,Chapter Four verse One throught verse Six as a basis that one could go by for this belief. _________________ ORBS- Dust balls from heaven to aggravate the hell out of all us.
I will be citing the following encyclopedia for the information contained in this post: Spirits, Fairies, Leprechauns, and Goblins by Carol Rose
An Elemental as defined by the early mystical philosopher Paracelsus (1493-1541), is a group of nature spirits defined in terms of the natural elements from which they were supposed to be derived. The defined groups are: spirits of the air, Sylphs; spirits of the earth, Gnomes; spirits of the animal life, Fauns; spirits of vegetation, dryads; spirits of fire, Salamanders; spirits of water, Undines.
(as a sidenote, every culture on the face of the planet has a destinctive name for each elemental classification listed above. For example, take the Undines. Our European ancestors knew them as Mermaids but other cultures call them Ben Varrey, Bonito Maidens, Ceasg, Clytie, Gwenhidwy, Havfrue, Imanja, Jamaina, Lamia, Liban... and so forth.)
Next, I will be citing Fallen Angels...and other spirits of the Dark by Robert Masello
In the Middle Ages, some of the Catholic church authorities condemned the elementals as unmitigated devils. In Ireland, the elementals's ancestors were considered to have been part of lucifer's host of fallen angels who had been seduced by god's most beautiful angel (Lucifer Morningstar) and cast out of heaven for their transgressions.
(It is said that one third of the angels of heaven fell) according to irish legend, so many fell that Gabriel begged god's intervention. Christ raised his hand and said, "Where they are, so shall they remain" Many of the elementals stopped short before landing in hell. Some splashed down into the sea, becoming mermaids and water spirits, and others, who landed near towns and houses, turned into brownies and hobs (dobby from Harry Potter). Those remaining in the air became pixies, sprites, and fairies with wings. The really wicked ones-the Lucifugi- kept right on going, becoming kobolds and knackers in the caverns of the Earth.
This is my most favored explanation of the origin of elementals.
Next, I will cite the book
Faeries by Brian Froud:
It must always be remembered that though the world of Faerie (elemental creatures) is to a large extent dependent on humans, faeries are alien creatures (on our world) with values and ethics far differend from the race of mankind: they do not think, as most humans do, they do not feel emotions the same exact way that humans do. This is precisely the core of much of their envy of mortals and the source of a good deal of the trouble they cause, for faeries are themselves creatures of the raw stuff of life and are ceaselessly attracted to all forms of creativity and particularly to moments of high emotion in which they seek to be participants. Lovers, poets, artists, writers, sculptors, weavers, musicians and the like- all the arts, indeed, acknowledge a debt to tn unidentifiable, invisible, capricious, sensitive, delicate, elusive and powerful force which is called "inspiration", or "muse" and is generally irresistible when present.
When my husband and I were dating, he enthusiastically proclaimed to me that Fairys lived on his property. I made the ignorantly cruel mistake of laughing in his face. He never brought it up again- that is, not until I ran into one....face to face on my back deck. But THAT, is another story.
In this day and age it is hard enough to convince some people that Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon back in 1969, But if you keep an open mind a person could learn more than they ever wanted to.The church has played on the ignorance of the people for years.In my opinion that is a evil unto itself.Ever since my first experence with the paranormal back in the early 1970s and my last major experence in August of 1983 I have questioned what I have seen everyday.I know that if it wasn't for my salvation to this day I might not have been able to understand what I have seen and why.On my fathers side of the family when ever their is about to be a death aleast one person is always payed a visit by a ORB of light about the size of a basketball, But from what I saw and experenced in 2004 was more energy than anything else.At the time it was my uncle that had pasted I was shocked when I went to the Funeral home and found out that serveral of my folks had seen it the day and night before at different times and places. _________________ {Definitions} ORBs- Dust balls from heaven sent down to aggravate the hell out of all of us. cwf081166- Ghost Hounds member formerly known as doctorx.
Does the orb of light come before someone in the family dies? or after? i'm wondering if it may be an ancesteral spirit coming to escort the deceased love one to their next higher plane or if it functions in a way, as a warning like a banshee. Thoughts?
Always before.The first time I ever heard about it was in 1972.That is the year my father seen it the night before around 1:00am before the death of his uncle(my great uncle) in a traffic accident.In 2002 when my grand father passed my uncle (my dads oldest brother) saw it early one morning around 5:30 in his carport before going to work.In 2002 I saw it at 1:30 am It just woke me up and there it was bouncing around the living room.After more than afew minutes it when through the front door and left.The first thing I did was go over and touch the door and it felt normal and then I called my father to see if anything was wrong.A that time everything was ok,But by 9:30 the next morning we found out about my dads youngest brother had past.At the funeral home the next day I found out my cousin saw it around 11:00pm also the night before while watching TV.His brother seen it around 3:00am that morning while going to the bath room.As far has it being a family member I do not know I have wonder about ti my self. _________________ {Definitions} ORBs- Dust balls from heaven sent down to aggravate the hell out of all of us. cwf081166- Ghost Hounds member formerly known as doctorx.
Joined: Sep 06, 2007 Posts: 146 Location: Fairburn, GA
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:45 am Post subject:
For me, I stand firmly with Athena on this one. I'm a Wiccan, and I have a major issue with how the church has decided that all Pagan/Wiccan things are evil, and we must transform all! Thanks to the Church and the Bible, what most people don't understand is that a vast majority of Wiccans don't even look at evil--they refuse to believe in its existence, sort of a "if I don't see it, it doesn't exist."
In Wicca, there are very few rules, and those that exist basically say don't do it if it's harmful to someone, all things only with free will, and karma WILL come back to you three-fold, so beware your actions. We don't need a lot of rules to live our lives, we love Nature, we don't need to besmirch the land with any huge complexes to show our devotion to any God or Goddess, and we don't worship Gods or Goddesses--they don't need nor want it. We ask for their help in things, and we perform devotionals. Sure, things can go wrong with spells, and sure, some Wiccans do bad things. But, we don't consider them true Wiccans. Those Wiccans get turned out eventually--or they are solitary and claim to be something they are not, parading around like people who claim to be of another religion or spirituality but don't hold to its tenets, either. We ALL know people like that.
So, that got way off the subject, didn't it?
But, my point is that just because the Church or the Bible says it's so, doesn't mean it is. I've had experience with this on another site, and as you can see, I've got my hackles up just a bit!
I think that more often than not, Elementals tend to be either neutral or good. They are protective spirits, and they don't bother us. I'd prefer to leave them alone, or send them an offering. Otherwise, the fairies may steal my keys! _________________ Believe in yourself, have faith in whatever you truly believe, and the possiblities are limitless.
Joined: Jun 05, 2007 Posts: 85 Location: kennesaw, ga.
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:
Hi, how about this thought, you can create energy, but you can never destroy it. even if it is sucked in to a deep black hole, and ends up on the otherside of the cosmos, it is not destroyed, just not where we can see it. So, maybe these elementals are created from residual energy, and though not good or bad, they will do what is most profitable and necessary to them. Disturb them and you end up with problems, leave them alone and they do their own thing. they do not aske to be messed with, and do not try to interact with us, unless we have done something specific to intrude into and on thier world. Maybe, when forced to interact with us, thay ask the question, will it help or hurt me if I interact, or if I interact, will my world and what not change, for my good or my bad... they could care less, until we assume they do care, and make the mistake to find out. Maybe God does know about them, but never intended us, to know about them. Maybe we only know, because we are on a quest that never ends for more info, more knowledge of the unknown. They may serve a purpose none of us know of, and shouldn't, because any interaction to date, has not been pleasant. Look at the castle that was built on their land by an arrogant human, and they messed with the humans until they died, got hurt and left, for good.. so I say, leave them alone, and if you have to be there, where they are, apologise, make an offer, a gift, and leave when you can... assuming you are not there by choice, if you are, you may get what you came for, and what if, it follows you home? Being neither human nor animal, spirit or evil, they do not show respect for any protection rituals or cleansing rituals you will perform, and just tag along ... hmmm?
That is a great reasoning behind elementals.If a person ever have a problem with one I would believe in could be a matter of one own faith on how to deal with it. _________________ {Definitions} ORBs- Dust balls from heaven sent down to aggravate the hell out of all of us. cwf081166- Ghost Hounds member formerly known as doctorx.
I don't feel religion has much to do with this topic. As someone previously pointed out, it's very easy (and apparently trendy) to call something you don't understand evil or a demon. I don't think they can be classified as good or evil, having differing personalities and agendas just as humans do.
In my opinion, Elementals are exactly what they sound to be - personifications of elemental forces. They were here long before man (and religions for that matter) and will be here long after man is gone. I believe they are akin to Faeries et al but not necessarily the same. They get grouped in with other spirits also, such as plant Devas and Numina (i.e. local spirits associated with particular geographic areas).
Joined: Jun 05, 2007 Posts: 85 Location: kennesaw, ga.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:59 am Post subject:
Yep, that is pretty much what I think, and even though they have nothing to do with religion, God, I am sure knows about them, and we just happened to find them through the years, but, like the saying goes, " It's not nice, to mess with mother nature!" and I felt that elementals belong there. we should leave them alone. Bimmy
This were you lost me.I am a Christain.What I believe might have got me burnt a the stake more than a few hundred years ago,But I look at God and Mother Nature a being one in the same.Every thing was put on earth to benefit or debilitate Us. _________________ {Definitions} ORBs- Dust balls from heaven sent down to aggravate the hell out of all of us. cwf081166- Ghost Hounds member formerly known as doctorx.
Joined: Jun 05, 2007 Posts: 85 Location: kennesaw, ga.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject:
I am also a Christian, and believe that there are things God means and wants for us to know, and things He does not. All in His own time. It is hard at times, to recon your faith and what you experience. I see and hear things beyond the common pale.
I can record voices from beyond on my dvr, I have heard the voice of God, and he asked me, to be his armor. At the time it happened, I did not even know what that meant. I was not a regular church goer, and had been baptised, but... did not grow up attending church. God spent a lot of time and energy and put many people in my path good and bad, to lead me to Him. I am the most unlikely warrior for Christ you will ever meet. But... I believe, I have such a faith that burns words on to a page directly from Him, to help and comfort people that need to know Him and do not. or need His word to shore up their faith. I have a faith based singularly on the belief that God loves me, and gave His only son to die for me. He, gives me words where there were none, strength when I need it to share, and courage to fear nothing because with God, anything is possible.
and... He gave me common sense.
there are more things in heaven and on this earth than we will ever be privy to, and seeing as God made the world, and all things in it, then he must know what the elementals are and why they are here. because if they are, and we muck with them, seeing as they are neither spirit nor evil, they do not obey our laws religious or not, why do we feel a need to muck with them?
and yes, now I know what the armor of God is, and I believe I am in this world to help, and one of these gifts to me is to know the spirit world. so, i can protect and defend others from attacks that come from that world. so, last but not least, being or not being a christian has nothing to do with this. What does matter is that you keep an open mind. Here, we keep an open mind so, though everyone has an opinion it may not be the same as another's but still has merit, and encourages a good discussion. and as the discussion is not about Christianity, but about our opinions on "Elementals" every one is entitled! thank you, for your opinion, and if you would care to ask me anything else about where I lost you, PM me and I will help you find your way. Bimmy
I have had several personal encounters with elementals. I would like to share one with you now as it stands out in my mind strongest about how elementals exist and have a purpose in this world whether we are aware of that or not.
I have been working with crystals/ reki energy for over 10 years now. I have learned alot. I feel I still have much to learn. One day I did learn a valuable mind expanding lesson.
I had practice with cleansing my own space and felt comfortable helping others smudge and cleanse their own surroundings. One of my very best friends had moved into a new home. Aside from the atrocious BLUE carpet and detailing on the walls, she still felt some negative vibage about the place. It was as if you had walked into a room and several people wanted you out quickly.
I offered to cleanse her place and went over to do so. We really didn't know too much about the previous owners, other than they seemed very nice so i'm guessing this feeling had lingered in this home for several decades.
I went in and did an energy sweep. Its like a bat sending out sonar....I bounce my energy all around the place and find out where energetic blocks or old stuck vibes are. I worked on the many different rooms, pulling out old, stagnent energy and re-aligning positives for a long time. It seemed almost as if the entire home was flowing backward-widdershins. Anyway, I got to the kitchen and worked in there. And worked. And worked. Still, there was some resistance. I felt not a negative but not a positive presence there. I dropped a psy bomb on the entire house. There, that should do it. It was still there. OK, now, when I have been through all the steps and there's still negativity and I have no other alternative route and i still encounter something there I do this only as a last resort. Nothing should be able to survive a bomb of pure white light dropped on it. So what the heck am I dealing with here?
Puzzled I sensed for where exactly I was feeling the presence. It was hiding. Alright, i'm the expert here. I'll go and drag the little negative booger out! I poke my head into a small kitchen cabinet that goes way back into the darkness. I couldn't see it but it felt bad. It was attacking me. I got ready to finish it off. I dropped another psy bomb right on it. I heard it yelling but it didn't dissapate. As i have said before, typically, nothing survives a psy bomb that's bad. I looked at my friend and said- that thing feels horrible. So why is it still here? I peeked back inside at it. It was old and wrinkled and fighting like mad. He reminded me of a severely beaten cat that's turned on its last leg of its defenses. My friend asked me to wait.
I backed off and kept it in a bubble so it could not harm her. She spoke to it. Turns out, it was a brownie! An acutal real....brownie! Usually, you only hear of those in Britan or Ireland. He was SUPPOSED to be there. It was his home too. I honestly had NO idea! Here was a real elemental which I had NEVER encountered before. It survived my psy blasts BECAUSE he had permission to be there. After spending a long conversation with my friend, she agreed to let him remain if he agreed to behave himself. He asks for nothing in return and only wants to maintain a roof over his head. We figure he lives in the attic because every now and then articles will turn up from in their home and will be found later in other places where they weren't put. you could even shout at him to help you find a missing object, go out of the room, and It will be there on a table when you come back in in a few hours.
I had been ignorant agout elementals and even the existance of brownies until I RAN into one during some of my lightworking experiences. He was very kind and only felt bad because he was under attack.
So, now, how many of us have run into stuff at cemeteries or deserted places and mistook it for a demon or malevolent spirit when it was really something else? Something that was maybe supposed to be there?
Something that had a purpose we might just be unaware of.
For me, it was a mind-expanding experience. I have learned from it that bad feelings do not always = bad entity. Sometimes, its just US tramping on their turf they are trying to maintain and protect.
Joined: Jun 05, 2007 Posts: 85 Location: kennesaw, ga.
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject:
go! bethoc! I agree. it is very rare that i have run into something that felt entirely evil, and when I have, it is a very oily, smutty feeling like you need to stand under clear running, ice cold water. So, I have to agree, that even though it feels bad or better, alien to us, it is not always a good idea to jump to the evil demon conclusion. I have felt the attack of something evil, and it awakened me fom a sleep and I was praying and "in the name of Jesus" sending it away. I have also encountered things that feel weird, like they have been warded against intrusion, and to fight that feels awful.by fighting, i mean staying where you are. ugh.
I have had a very weird thing happen to me, and the only thing I can imagine it would be was "other" not human, not spirit, not evil or demon. just "other". I woke up one night, hubby in Ca. foe work, and it felt as if someone or something were looking at me, enough to wake me up. I sat up, my hearing went kind of tinny, and I heard jungle noises, and smelled the smell of dirt, grass and trees. I felt this presence move around me, in a non threatening way, as if assessing me and my threat potential. it lasted about 30 seconds or so, then I felt it leave, satisfied I was not a threat, but on it's radar. just in case. i went back to sleep, but found it very strange. any suggestions on what it may be, let me know! bimmy
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Ghost hunting is a potentially hazardous activity due to numerous environmental variables. Outdoor ghost hunts typically take place in dark areas such as cemeteries and old buildings which may contain unseen hazards that pose risk of bodily harm, damage to property or even death. We do not recommend anyone venture into an unfamiliar area without first surveying potential hazards during daylight hours.
Neither Ghost Hounds members, site subscribers, site moderators or founder and director Patrick Burns assume any liability for any bodily injury, loss of life, or loss / damage to personal or private property resulting either directly or indirectly from information found on this site.
Furthermore, we assume no liability for the actions of people that choose to trespass on private property. We strongly oppose anyone being on private property without the expressed consent of the property owner or its legally appointed agent.
Your use of this site constitutes you agreem to the above and assume full legal and moral responsibility for your own actions.
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
thank you, for your opinion, and if you would care to ask me anything else about where I lost you, PM me and I will help you find your way. Bimmy