Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: Investigation to crash site of flight 191
I'll be back to my childhood home in Chicago over memorial day weekend to attend the retirement concert for one of my HS music directors.
Instead of the obligatory trip to Bachelors Grove, I'm planning something a little different this time. I'm planning to go to the crash site of American Airlines Flight 191.
For those too young to remember, it was an air disaster that occurred at O'Hare International Airport in Chicago back on memorial day weekend, May 25'th, 1979 - 26 years ago this Wednesday in fact.
You can read Troy Taylor's account of the accident and some of the reports of activity associated around the crash site here...
Naturally, I'm taking the "toys" along, and if anything comes out of this one, it might make it into a "Haunted" episode.
A report (when I return home) is forthcoming, so keep an eye on this thread! _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:17 am Post subject:
Good luck! _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Oct 28, 2004 Posts: 726 Location: Snellville, Ga
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:03 am Post subject:
cool, Geek!
I have wondered about the paranormal activity associated with tragic and sudden death associated with mass transportation. I believe that there are greater chances of paranormal activity at these places because of the assumption that the spirits of the departed were caught unexpected and unprepared, and basically have not yielded to death.
I have flown for 15 yrs for an airline and I have heard all those years (and even decades before) about the spiritul activity in mass death sites.
I worked for Eastern years after flight 401 went down in the everglades in Florida, and I heard countless tales (though under the table) of the sightings of co-pilot Don Remo, who died in the crash and returned to give warnings to crew members on future flights of immenent danger. The crash occured due to incorrect calibration of the altimeter (flight height indicator). He also appeared to some to be simply continuing the duties that he did each time he flew, as if he was perpetually "caught" in the cycle of his last days.
Even some of the stories carried over to Delta when the airline bought some of the aircraft that had flown for Eastern, and possibly by Remo in his life. I heard stories while flying the old Eastern aircraft of unexplainable things happening, electrical disturbances and avionic discrepancies, elevators moving uninhabited, ovens turning on by themselves, faces in the pressure bulkhead portal, as well as a few cold spots throughout the airplanes.
I worked for Atlantic Southeast during the time of the loss of 9 people and the Captain in Carrolton, Ga. There were stories of unexplainable disturbances on some of the aircraft that were of the type that went down in the crash. ASA also lost an aircraft on approach in Brunswick, Ga. in the '80's and I heard a few of the same kind of stories about this same aircraft.
Also, I have heard stories associated with the crashes of Delta's two flights in Dallas. Those happened before I went to work there, yet years after there were unexplained incicidents on similar aircraft that cannot be attributed directly to mechanical defects.
So, you can see that this is a great study area for paranormal. Maybe another book could even be written about the spiritual unexplained occurances after a mass transit accident. hmm
Hope it yields some results for you! have a great study -
Joined: Oct 28, 2004 Posts: 726 Location: Snellville, Ga
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:15 am Post subject:
also, Geek -
If I remember correctly, AM 191 was a loss of control flight on take off, resulting from engine loss and extreme pitching of the aircraft over uncontrollably.
If so, there would have been tens of seconds of terrible, traumatic hysteria on board as the aircraft pitched over and eventually hit ground. There would not have been an immediate vaporization as occurs in many aircraft explosions. Instead the whole fuselage and inhabitants would glide down to the ground.
If there is anything to the premise that pschological trauma imprints activity on the spot of an accident, this would definitely be the case. I'm sure many who perished realized their immenent death soon after the plane rolled over, out of control.
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:
Hi Chris...
Yes, you are correct about the cause and effect of the flight. Again, Troy's article (he is one of the very best writers and researchers of ghost stories IMO) has a detailed account of the brief flight.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject:
How timely is this?
Time Machine: The Crash of Flight 191
Airs on Thursday, May 26 at 9:30am ET
What happens when an airline and federal agency detect a design or mechanical flaw in an airliner and choose to ignore the "acceptable risk" because it's costly to fix and may not cause a problem?
On May 25, 1979, 271 people fastened their seatbelts for a flight from Chicago to Los Angeles. Almost as soon as the DC-10 took off, it plummeted to earth, exploding in flames.
It's a story of greed and deceit, arrogance and spin control, and how the fallout brought aviation giant McDonnell-Douglas to its knees. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject:
LOL - naaa... that was just copy/pasted from History Channels synopsis of the program on their web site. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject:
Some interesting trivia about Flight 191...
A man had premonistic dreams of the crash before it happened. He reported a disturbing dream to the FAA three days before the crash, correctly naming both the airline, the plane and the type of crash.
Also, the rumor goes that 70's actress Lindsay Wagner ("The Bionic Woman") was to have been on flight 191 back to LA, but had an uneasy feeling about it and instead decided to give her seat up to a woman desperately trying to get to LA. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Oct 28, 2004 Posts: 726 Location: Snellville, Ga
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 8:05 am Post subject:
if that man had the same dream today (post 9-11) he would immediately be suspect in terroristic threats -no credance would be given to psychic premonitions. that's sad, because the accident was a result of a combination of defect and oversight, not terrorism.
it's all a game of odds anyway. air travel is the safest hands down, because of the amount of hours spent on mechanical checks on an aircraft. but with the magnitude of flights a day its just a manner of time before another accident happens in the world. it's just part of the equation. what is learned by these accidents (as was learned from the Eastern 401 and Delta Dallas crashes) institutes some safety measures which decrease the odds dramatically. American 191 brought new pylon reinforcements for the engines on most aircraft. Eastern brought a device to all aircraft which tells the pilots of the closeness of the ground. Delta's brought a device to airports which measure and warn of micro bursts (swirling winds) and send pilots around the storm.
Joined: Jun 23, 2004 Posts: 333 Location: Waleska, GA
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 10:28 am Post subject:
As I stated in an earlier thread, I was at O'Hare waiting for a flight out when the plane went down. I was with another fellow from the same company (We were in Chicago for training) who was supposed to be on that flight. He canceled 3 hours earlier and booked a flight to Detriot to see his mother, before returning home.
Another tidbit of info. During that period, it was common practice for the in cabin screen to be showing the view through the cockpit and front window during take-offs and landings. I believe that the screen was active that day, so even the passengers would have see th eground rising to meet them. That should have added to the shock somewhat, I would think.
GG, I'll be interested in seeing your results. I have often wondered about the crash site. _________________ Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming ....
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject:
wingedguy wrote:
it's all a game of odds anyway. air travel is the safest hands down, because of the amount of hours spent on mechanical checks on an aircraft. but with the magnitude of flights a day its just a manner of time before another accident happens in the world. it's just part of the equation.
I completely agree. Air travel IS the safest form of travel by far, and I remind people of this every chance I get. You have a much higher chance of being killed on the way to the airport than you do of dying in a plane crash. I've always found it odd how some people will climb into a car and go out on the expressway doing 90 MPH and not blink an eye, but are afraid to get onboard an aircraft.
GPI - that is freaky that you were in the airport at the time of the crash and the guy you knew changed his flight plans - talk about lucky! Was he still at the airport with you when it crashed? I can only imagine how emotional he would have been. Strike that - I can't even begin to comprehend what would have been going thru his, Lindsay Wagners, or anyone elses mind that was supposed to have been on that flight.
I was living in the 'burbs - about 45 miles northwest of downtown Chicago at the time (I was 10 years old going on 11) and I remember seeing the story break as the news interrupted what I was watching on TV. Our house was high atop a bluff overlooking the Fox River Valley and I remember stepping outside on our deck and looking to the southeast. I could see the cloud of black smoke out on the horizons edge.
That crash has never left my mind either GPI... Every time I pass by O'Hare on the expressway I think "that plane went down someplace right over there." So this is actually an investigation I've wanted to conduct for a long time due to its proximity to my childhood home and vivid memories I have of it. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Oct 28, 2004 Posts: 726 Location: Snellville, Ga
Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:22 am Post subject:
certain things in life call us to examine them-this is one of them for you, Geek. Therein lies a revelation that only you can discover, a message meant for a particular time and a particular place. I am both envious and excited for you because I know that you will return enlightened from the experience.
I hope that you will be given some evidence to support the premise that mass transit death yields spiritual activity.
I think that before any major disaster, you will see an increase in people canceling flights or in the case of 9-1-1 I have a friend who is NEVER late, however, on that day she over slept and missed her usual train into the World Trade Center. By the time she got dressed and got to the train station it was shut down. Had she not have over slept she would not have been alive today! She was in counseling for a year and a half and is struggling to understand how or why she was spared. _________________ ~~ Find a happy place~~
Joined: Jun 23, 2004 Posts: 333 Location: Waleska, GA
Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:29 am Post subject:
GG, we had heard that a plane went down, so we went to one of the bars for a drink. We had just gotten serevd when we found out it was the flight he was supposed to be on. His hand was shaking so bad, he spliied about half his drink.
I found out when I got home that my wife had tried to call and get me paged, (all she knew was a plane went down, she didn't know which one yet) but everyone was paging and all the radios and TV's were turned up, so I never heard it. _________________ Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming ....
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject:
wingedguy wrote:
thanks for the info. I'll be watching the show!
yea - I wish I'd paid closer attention to my own info now - that was 9:30 >>AM<< today - not PM
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to buy the episode on DVD from History.com for $30 plus shipping. NOT!!!
Did anyone happen to tape or Tivo this? I'm so ticked off that I missed it. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject:
Hi Everyone...
Well, after a busy weekend here in the Windy City, I'm getting ready to return to Atlanta tomorrow AM.
The crash site looks the same today as it did in the news reports I saw from 26 years ago - sans airplane wreckage.
I was at the location for a good 6 hours. The webcast worked, but was prone to drop out every few minutes. The problem was that I was right on the edge of where I could get a solid connection, and every time I tried to approach the fence, the connection would drop soon afterwards. But as Wingedguy told me in the shoutbox - it worked! Since it works, I'm going to plan another investigation at a location that has a better internet solution available.
Once I signed off from the webcast and was no longer "chained" to it; trying to maintain connectivity, I ventured into the actual crash site itself. Upon entering the field, I was overcome with the sharpest, most defined cold spot I've ever experienced. The temp probably dropped 10 to 20 degrees F, but the "edges" of this cold spot were... I can only describe it as like the edge of a knife. I could feel the temperature drop as it moved across my arms and legs and then it was gone - about in the span of two seconds max.
I walked about the crash site for about 20 mins; recording with 2 camcorders - one on tripod (stationary) and another that I carried with. I also had my DM-20 DVR on me recording. I left the trifield meter sitting next to the camcorder on the tripod while I walked about.
I'll be reviewing audio and video on the plane flight home tomorrow and will of course report anything unusual that I find... _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject:
UPDATE...
I managed to get some good video this AM at the airport. I got a photo of the hanger that the airplane is seen near in the above image. Will be used for a "then and now" comparison. Interesting (and more than a little ironic) that hanger is infact owned by American Airlines. If you ever fly into O'hare, that hanger is unmistakeable. I've seen it many times and I always have that lingering image of the airplane rolled 90 degrees with its wings vertical above it.
I also got some good video of American Airlines gate K-5, which I'm told is the gate that serviced flight 191 - and yes, the infamous payphone bank where the man in the outdated business attire has disapeared. I got a few seconds of video before being told that was against regulations to video tape within the airport (would be nice if they had some signs up or announced it on those annoying looping security messages they constantly play), but it will suffice for our documentary!
Did not get a chance to review the DVR on the flight as I had forgotten it was in my checked luggage.
Nor did I get to look at my video tape - the camcorder battery finally died at gate K-5. I know you're all thinking "battery drain?" not this time I don't think - the battery was nearly gone before I walked in the airport.
I've been trying to catch up on email, GhoStock stuff and ripping my web hosting company a new one for disabling us YET AGAIN for "exceeding bandwidth". Turns out we have another 10 gigs of transfer available! They have some MAJOR booty-kissing and some free service to hand out if they want to keep Ghost Hounds as a customer!
Going to try and review some of the footage tonight. I'll post if I find anything of course. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1892 Location: Georgia
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:23 am Post subject:
Results from DVR...
Obviously, this was a hard place to attempt to record EVP - a mile from the world’s busiest airport, and the field is right at the intersection of two very busy highways. There was a constant drone of noise there.
At the moment before I reported feeling the cold spot, I could hear what sounded like a very faint whisper. I'm able to effectively remove most of the background noise; however the "whispers" go with it too.
Then shortly after while walking about and asking questions, I hear a very short "beep". Could have been a car horn, but sounded closer than the cars and I didn't note any car horn at the time.
But perhaps the most interesting thing aside from the cold spot was a strange sound that recorded twice on the DVR. Sounded like one of the metal gates being opened and then closed. It’s quite clear, and I definitely would have taken note of that sound if I had actually heard it while I was there.
Will be reviewing video later on... _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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Since it works, I'm going to plan another investigation at a location that has a better internet solution available.
