Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: Trespassing thread deleted
Wow!
Why is it the H E double hockey sticks ALWAYS seems to break out when I'm either filming or off on investigations with other groups and I'm away from the computer? I mean I don't even have to lead on that I'm out of town and will be computer-less for several days- the universe just seems to know when the ripe times are to mess with our site!
Seriously… my apologies to the long time AND new readers of our forums for the personal attacks and flame wars that ensued regarding the group arrested for trespassing at Central State. Those of you who have been here a while know that I frown on flame wars on our otherwise friendly and informative forums and I'm normally VERY quick on the DELETE button when things start to spiral out of control. I was in Birmingham Alabama over the weekend investigating historic Sloss Furnaces with the North Eastern Alabama Paranormal Society (NAPS) and was away from the Internet since early Saturday. I’ve now had a chance to review and I’ve deleted the entire thread, VS selectively pruning 64+ posts.
My personal take on this unfortunate series of events? To err is human! While I don’t support t what has transpired, I applaud those who stepped forward and took mature responsibility for their mistakes.
Regarding Central State, I’ve been trying for YEARS to get us into this location. I think our Jedi master of investigation coordination Denise has even been turned down. Its state owned property. I’m told that while most of the buildings are unoccupied, that a portion of the property still functions as a prison hospital. In other words, it IS a prison! Hopefully now everyone can understand why the state is so danged uptight about people mulling about the CS property without being there on official business!
I of course understand people’s desire to investigate dilapidated, historic places like this, but we really DO have to do things by the books these days. As our hobby grows and more and more people start doing paranormal investigation, more of these incidents and run-ins with the law are going to happen. The established groups owe it not only to themselves but to all other groups to "raise the bar" and seek permission. I urge everyone of us to use better judgment from this point forward. Please do NOT enter a structure without permission from the rightful owners and/or property managers.
Note that I’m not without some degree of guilt in this respect. While I’ve always refused to enter a structure without official permission, non-gated or posted cemeteries have been (a s they are for most ghost hunters) the “safe” locations to investigate without asking. My most infamous case was my investigations into historic Bachelors Grove Cemetery near Chicago. That location is not OFFICIALLY off limits 24/7, but the forest preserve it resides in is posted “closed at sunset” and one lone Ghost Hound just HAPPENED to slip in before the sun set and was a little s…l…o…w… finding his way back out. Note my forays there all happened over 4 years ago. These days a police blotter is NOT the sort of press that I want!! You can be certain I wouldn’t tempt fate and return to Bachelors Grove after sun set without official permission.
I've long considered cemeteries to be a "grey" area. Unless they are posted no trespassing and or gated and locked, we’ve historically been able to investigate cemeteries uninhibited by law enforcement. In fact, at a well-known local cemetery near where I live, the police have not only allowed us to go on our way when they have shown up,, they have also advised us of other places to check out!
This scenario is however changing. We are all aware of the current situation with Noonday Extension cemetery and the organization “Southern Cemeteries” preservation efforts there. I support their efforts 110%, and the good news is that not only are they protecting this place from further vandalism, but when their restoration efforts are complete, its been hinted that they may be able to arrange for perfectly legal after-hours access to this and other locations they look after. The cemetery gets repaired, gets the protection of watchful eyes that it deserves, and WE might gain perfectly legal access to continue our research. Everybody wins and no illegal trespassing is necessary!
I’ve said this before, but its probably worth making mention of again – should you choose to enter property illegally, you are there ON YOUR OWN – NOT as a representative of Ghost Hounds. Do NOT drop my name either “Oh do you watch Court TV? I know Patrick Burns...” as I’ve heard has started happening recently.
So to recap - stay off of privately owned property without permission from the owners. And in this day and age, it’s probably a very good idea to seek permission even at cemeteries. In the case of a cemetery that is owned by a municipality, tell the police what you are doing. Not only will they probably let you in, but they might even tell you other active locations. Heck they might even want to join your group!
Happy hunting! Be safe, be LEGAL and have fun! _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
LOL What GG you don't want your name to be used as a get out of trouble free card?
GASP of all the....
Hehe
My Mantra has always been "get permission first" After all I can't afford to get into trouble my kids would never let me live it down LOL......Its a good thing we had permission at a certain ghostock hospital investigation tee hee......Although it might have been a very interesting night to see about 20 or so people in handcuffs being hauled off to see the local judge.....I have to say I wish I had been in that basement to see the looks on the faces when the cop had his gun out ......
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject:
Fayelle wrote:
it might have been a very interesting night to see about 20 or so people in handcuffs being hauled off to see the local judge.....I have to say I wish I had been in that basement to see the looks on the faces when the cop had his gun out ......
Yea that was a little scary!
For those who don't know what Fayelle is talking about... at GhoStock 3, I led a large team to investigate abandoned Candler Hospital in Savannah. YES - we had permission to be there from the property manager, but it turns out its only PARTIALLY abandoned - a portion is owned and occupied by Savannahs Department of Corrections.
Well, no one told us where we could go and could NOT go - except that certain doors were locked for a purpose. Apparently someone forgot to lock ALL the doors, and we wandered into the DOC's offices, where we proceeded to set off an alarm. Two plain clothes cops greeted us down one hallway with guns drawn.
I sure am glad we had permission to be there that night! And I'm glad YOU get a kick iout of the visual of us being led off in hand cuffs, Fayelle! _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Well, no one told us where we could go and could NOT go - except that certain doors were locked for a purpose. Apparently someone forgot to lock ALL the doors, and we wandered into the DOC's offices, where we proceeded to set off an alarm. Two plain clothes cops greeted us down one hallway with guns drawn.
LOL, I bet some of you turned white as a ghost at that!
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 1073 Location: Land of the Lost
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject:
I would have been a PUDDLE of slime, but that's one hilarious visual! _________________ "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" - Les Brown
ROFLMAO well ya know.....It would have been fun what can I say I have a wicked sense of humor .....
It certainly would have been one you would have laughed about after a while .....
Tee hee
However I am a little jealous that I was with the group that went upstairs that night because it would have been a great story to have been with your group down there GG ........
Joined: Oct 28, 2004 Posts: 728 Location: Snellville, Ga
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:05 am Post subject:
ghostgeek wrote:
Well, no one told us where we could go and could NOT go - except that certain doors were locked for a purpose. Apparently someone forgot to lock ALL the doors, and we wandered into the DOC's offices, where we proceeded to set off an alarm. Two plain clothes cops greeted us down one hallway with guns drawn.
I sure am glad we had permission to be there that night! And I'm glad YOU get a kick iout of the visual of us being led off in hand cuffs, Fayelle!
I seem to remember another situation where permission was granted to selected "parts" of the place-Anthony's!
the female ghost made it quite clear Patrick was NOT permitted in the ladies room!
"oh S@#T!"
_________________ "just because you can't SEE them, doesn't mean they're not there!"
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Site of "Devil's Turnaround" by SCUSA
I would like to personally thank Patrick Burns and some of his members for their cooperation with Southern Cemeteries and the matter regarding the cemetery.
There has been a lot of heat on the fact that the location has been posted as No Trespassing. There is some doubt about the postings and the laws regarding trespassing. Southern Cemeteries, though against an internet presence due to previous vandalism on some of our sites, has created a page for this location. I would advise people to check the link.
What we have done is post some of the photos for the No Trespassing, the information on the photos and the Georgia laws regarding No Trespassing. We have also posted some photos of the vandalism and the Georgia laws regarding vandalism and cemetery vandalism.
Thank you,
Nicole Mullennix
Southern Cemeteries
Joined: Aug 22, 2006 Posts: 198 Location: alpharetta ga,
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject:
However I am a little jealous that I was with the group that went upstairs that night because it would have been a great story to have been with your group down there GG ........
Fay[/quote]
I remember that night Faye. My friends and I was in the upstairs area at that time too aswell. When we came back down to the fist level I myself allmost opened the basment door too, but luckly my friend saw it was a silent alarm system, _________________ Scott
("The best feeing in the world is to know that life really begins in the next one and that the present is about learning." "James Van Praagh")
http://www.myspace.com/scotolbe
If all the professional ghost researchers and others who care about the integretity of this field would appluad and aid in the apprehension of trespassers the field would be less tarnished by these criminals who claim to be ghost hunters/researchers. I am a former police officer and we gladly assist any property owner or police department in catching trespassers and vandals who do this in the name of ghost hunting.
Keep it simple and pass the word: If you dont have permission to enter a building, abandon or not, you are trespassing and should (hopefully you will) be arrested.
Dave Juliano
Founder of The Shadowlands:Ghosts and Hauntings
The Shadowlands - http://theshadowlands.net/ghost/
Director of South Jersey Ghost Research
South Jersey Ghost Research - http://hauntedhelp.org
Author of "Positive Energy for Haunted Homes", "Ghost Research 101:
Investigating Haunted Homes" and "Armor of God"
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: Group in Question
I belonged to the group in question and left due to issues--including the possibility of arrest due to trespassing.
I joined the group and participated in investigations of which the majority were local; all of the local groups regularly investigated these sites.
I got my first inkling that problems were going to develop at a known 2-story location with no stair-railing. A couple of drunk teenagers showed up that night and the founder of the investigation took them upstairs (drunk, no stairway railing :-0 ). I am a health-care professional and saw the dangers. When I pointed them out to the founder, my concerns were brushed off. I had ridden to the location with another member and after a short discussion, we left.
I did a total of 5 investigations with the group. The majority of the investigations were disrupted by teenagers that were guests of a group member. Anytime that they experienced anything, they started traipsing around and telling everyone of their experience. They were constantly in and out of rooms and could not stay put more than 20 minutes. The volume would get to the point that it was impossible to obtain EVP data. Investigations would end after a couple of hours instead of lasting 3-4 hours or more to get some quality data. The founder was aware of this and attempted to split the teens up, but that was useless.
Throughout of all this, there was a constant political understream where members of other groups and the groups themselves were denigrated. It was a big turn-off. Data was never good enough...you could turn in quality photos and crystal clear EVPs and get little or no feedback.
Due to life circumstances, the founder temporarily designated a new group leader. While trying to find locations, I mentioned Central State and discarded the idea since Milledgeville already had its own paranormal groups and probably would not kindly to us trespassing onto their home turf.
Investigations were set up, many of which were out of town. I queried our new organizer about these locations and whether or not we had permission to be at these locations. I received vague answers and consequentially did not attend those investigations. I advised the new organizer and CC'd the founder that I was in a professional program and could not risk being arrested.
In the meantime, I joined another small group that was conducting investigations locally so that I would be able to participate in investigations that were more local to my home since my original group was travelling hours away with what I felt was no firm permission. Within a week, my home group decided to parrot another large, local group that they disliked and stated that you could not belong to more than one group.
I dropped out of my home group and told them exactly what I thought of their lack of professionalism and bad attitudes towards other groups. I called them in on the lack of data opportunities due to immature children being brought along on investigations. I contacted a couple of close friends that I had made in the group and expressed my concerns about the lack of concern for personal safety and what I felt might be potential property violations.
I did attempt to apologize the founder and organizer later so we could all talk with cooler heads, but they apparently were not interested in talking intelligently about the situation. I have been(according to friends) dubbed as a 'spy' from another group that I have absolutely no associations with.
I am offering my experiences not to degrade a group; I am offering my experiences to let other people know that if you get a bad feeling from a group, then don't disregard it. People who do not want to answer your questions about personal safety and permission to be on a property are not the kind of people that you want to investigate with. To do these investigations, you need to feel comfortable and secure.
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject:
The Ghost Hounds "dead horse" award goes to this thread.
At the advice of another Ghost Hound, I am locking this thread so as to prevent this from erupting once again. The issue is well-known in the paranormal ciricles. I don't believe there is anything more to be said on either side of the arguement that has not been said numerous times already. _________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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Ghost hunting is a potentially hazardous activity due to numerous environmental variables. Outdoor ghost hunts typically take place in dark areas such as cemeteries and old buildings which may contain unseen hazards that pose risk of bodily harm, damage to property or even death. We do not recommend anyone venture into an unfamiliar area without first surveying potential hazards during daylight hours.
Neither Ghost Hounds members, site subscribers, site moderators or founder and director Patrick Burns assume any liability for any bodily injury, loss of life, or loss / damage to personal or private property resulting either directly or indirectly from information found on this site.
Furthermore, we assume no liability for the actions of people that choose to trespass on private property. We strongly oppose anyone being on private property without the expressed consent of the property owner or its legally appointed agent.
Your use of this site constitutes you agreem to the above and assume full legal and moral responsibility for your own actions.
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Note my forays there all happened over 4 years ago. These days a police blotter is NOT the sort of press that I want!! You can be certain I wouldn’t tempt fate and return to Bachelors Grove after sun set without official permission.
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