Joined: Mar 27, 2006 Posts: 38 Location: Meriwether County
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Protocol
hkolln wrote:
I have a question:
How do you police it so that the information input is accurate and nobody is making stuff up as far as evidence goes? I know alot of teams aren't up to par and think every orb is paranormal, etc...
I wanted to know how this would be handled too, I just wasn't sure about how to ask.
I do like that you would let each investigator retain rights to publish the findings elsewhere too.
As far as a list of medications I think it is important to be clear about what is considered mood altering, and what is considered unimportant if you are going to require a med list.....Or require a person to sign off on a waiver stating that they are not using a mind altering medication during an investigation and give examples of said medications.....
After all medical issues are considered private for a reason and I am not sure some medications are important to divulge under this circumstance......Some I certainly agree with....
I personally do use many medications due to physical reasons, and chronic conditions....However I take them as per my physicians instructions and I do not consider them a detriment to my capabilities to investigate, or experience a situation that might arise during an investigation.....In fact if I did not take some of those medications my ability to concentrate on and investigate a situation would be extremely impaired due to my conditions physical symptomology.....Some people might not be able to see this as clearly with some medications as there is a certain stigma attached to medications that the public does not clearly understand.....
While I am generally an open book and would have very few issues with divulging my personal medications to my hunting group others may not feel as if they want to discuss that part of themselves with anyone other than a doctor.....This is an extremely delicate topic....
I do think it is all right to expect no illegal drug use, and no alcohol consumption during an investigation though.....I would hope that some of the medications that would be of a significant issue would impair a person from attending an investigation to begin with and therefore there would not be an issue.....
Also some medical conditions are not well understood by some physicians let alone someone who has no medical background....It is exceptionally important that if you require the information that you are invested enough to research the illness that medication is necessary for...And understand the medications associated with it.....
The other things mentioned here are certainly great expectations and ideas, the only thing that gives me pause is this certain item....
In part because I understand the pit falls of requiring, and divulging such information.....
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Columbus, Georgia
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject:
Fayelle:
I understand your concern about privacy and confidentiality. Unfortunately, situations related to physical and mental conditions requiring pharmacological intervention can impact the group in several ways.
The underlying reason for the meds list and the promise to be compliant is for the safety of all group members while investigating. There are conditions which can be exacerbated by investigative techniques - - for instance, seizures can be triggered by strobing lights which some investigators are currently experimenting with. If a team member went into a seizure and the group had no medical and drug history, it could impair access to more immediate and accurate emergency intervention as well as scare the crap out of team members and the site hosts. The same thing for other physical and mental conditions - - noncompliance with meds or a change in the person's physical or mental condition could create an emergency situation on an investigation. This also reflects on the group, hence, the group (at least the administrative members) should be aware of these things.
Employment that relies on perception and enforces strict safety issues usually require such disclosure. Paranormal investigation may be a hobby to some (and stick to hunts rather than serious investigations), but to many groups it is a "unpaid" career that is taken seriously. That, I guess, is why some groups require it and others don't.
Kimberly _________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. Richard Feynman
Joined: Sep 19, 2005 Posts: 127 Location: Lilburn, Ga
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: INVESTIGATION PROTOCOL
I think all of these ideas are wonderful, and certainly have there place in an organization of this size(personel). I also agree that in this modern day of lawsuits-r-us legal services the Hounds need to have a sufficient CYA system of checks and balances. However, I also think very highly of most all of the Hounds I have met, and don't think that "mood altering drugs" will be a huge issue on investigations. Speaking for myself (as a newbie), people that are serious enough to spend a great deal of time on the site, and even more time to dedicate to going on investigations are not going to show up "altered".
On the initial line of the topic though, Kimberly had some good points. I also agree that appearance and the way we present ourselves on-site at an investigation can do alot for or against our reputation.
Being invited back to a location, or being asked not to ever return is a huge difference.
Patricks idea of the team set up is an excellent starting point toward streamlining our investigation process. As with anything else there will be changes, revisions, additions, and subtractions to the protocol. If we get something inplace, deligate responsibilities, and assign roles, I am sure there are enough forward thinkers in the Hounds to keep it progressive.
Hell, if the idiots in Washington can screw it up as bad as they do every year, then we have to do a better job based simply on the law of averages.hahaha
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Columbus, Georgia
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:54 am Post subject:
Hello, Longrifle!
You'd be surprised what people will do when they participate on investigations. I've participated in several groups simultaneously and long-term when living n Ohio and one here in Georgia. I've seen and heard about investigators asking the owners of the site for medication that they forgot to bring with them (and then they fell down the stairs because of a "bad headache"), investigators drinking alcohol during an investigation on the site, and investigators breaking off from the group and roaming places in the structure and on the grounds that the site owner did not approve the group to go. Its necessary to make sure that everything is covered in member rules and protocols because it will happen.
Kimberly _________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. Richard Feynman
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Columbus, Georgia
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:
Whoops! Just wanted to make sure I was clear that the Georgia group I referred to in my post above is NOT GhostHounds....
Kimberly _________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. Richard Feynman
Joined: Sep 19, 2005 Posts: 127 Location: Lilburn, Ga
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: General Protocal
Well said Kimberly. Don't get me wrong. I'm all about The CYA clause for the Hounds. I guess I just hate to see things like this corrupted. Seen stuff like that in the construction trades for the past 12 years. Thats work...this is a passion. I for one would not tolerate it here. That being said. Lets get o twork on some of this paperwork. We know we need a waiver of liability, and someone to begin a protocal journal. Ideas on deligation? Let me know by PM.
Joined: Oct 31, 2005 Posts: 90 Location: Woodbury, Georgia
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject:
ScaryMom wrote:
Hello, Longrifle!
You'd be surprised what people will do when they participate on investigations. I've participated in several groups simultaneously and long-term when living n Ohio and one here in Georgia. I've seen and heard about investigators asking the owners of the site for medication that they forgot to bring with them (and then they fell down the stairs because of a "bad headache"), investigators drinking alcohol during an investigation on the site, and investigators breaking off from the group and roaming places in the structure and on the grounds that the site owner did not approve the group to go. Its necessary to make sure that everything is covered in member rules and protocols because it will happen.
Kimberly
I agree completely...the problem is that quite often the first person to break the rules is the person who wrote them to begin with. _________________ Director of the West Georgia Paranormal Research Society
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Columbus, Georgia
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:53 am Post subject:
Fayelle.....
Cool down! This is an objective discussion. If you don't agree, fine. Each group develops its own rules and protocols.
Kimberly _________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. Richard Feynman
Joined: Mar 27, 2006 Posts: 38 Location: Meriwether County
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: medications
Fayelle, maybe a suggestion in your case would be to talk privately with the group leader and let him/her know of any situation that could possibly come up so that at least one person would be prepared in case an emergency occured. then you can preserve your privacy but be safe too
I am merely telling you I would not owe anything to anyone about my medical condition except my doctor.....
Nor am I making a statement that i would have a problem with talking about MY medical condition......
But to insist someone tells you in order to pursue what people do in their spare time is insulting Kim.....No one owes you any explanation to anything about a medical condition....if the doctors deems you ok to function thats enough.....Please next time you fill a prescription read the rules on privacy!
Joined: Jul 11, 2006 Posts: 659 Location: Riverdale, Ga
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:33 am Post subject:
You can come on a hunt with me anytime Faye! I think you bring alot to an investigation. Your privacy is your privacy and you owe no one an explanation. You are also a wonderful investigator and from what I have seen, I truely believe you when you say you are a "sensative" because you truely blew me away. My opinion is that if someone is drinking or nodding out from herion, they should not go on the hunt. If you are under a doctor's care, that is your private buisness.
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Columbus, Georgia
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject:
Hello, Fayelle!
I'm not sure why this is turning into an argument, but I plan to stop it here....
I am a mental health and AOD professional very much aware of the HIPAA laws.... And very much aware of the effects of psychotropic medications.
I was participating in a discussion from an objective position based on science and personal experience in investigations. There was nothing insulting about anything I offered in that discussion. For some reason, you have personalized what I said.
Anyway, this is where it ends.
Kimberly (not Kim) _________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. Richard Feynman
Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 1895 Location: Georgia
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject:
Thanks to all parties for "agreeing to disagree" before this boils over.
_________________ Patrick Burns
Founder and Director, Ghost Hounds
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Others who have personal experience with you call you Kim....
I am not angry but it is personal to expect a person to give medical information to someone else based on what someone might determine dangerous...
My mother works in social work my best friend works in social work one with 16 years of experience and the other with 10. Both in the mental health arena. The last couple of years I lived in my mothers home she worked in mental health. The hippa rules are very clear....
If you had read anything I had previously written you might understand to a degree why I am of this opinion and why it is not an objective discussion. It is invasive to require medications to be disclosed in order to participate in an activity during a persons spare time. Most occupations do not even require a list of medications in order to work....
It has also been brought to my attention that there are others who feel as I do that disclosure of medication that a doctor prescribes is not something you can expect. Well I suppose you can expect it but also expect some people to feel it is invasive and offensive to require it.
This is not personal to me because I feel I don't have anything to feel closemouthed about with my medical conditions or medications, but I know many people do feel it is personal and not something that should be expected of them.
If there is a mental illness which perhaps is what you are alluding to then the person will in fact show symptoms and decisions can be made to ask that person on hunts or not. However that being said if a person is being treated then is it also not a point in fact that the person is taking care of anything that might be an issue that you could need to be aware of.....
And being in mental health it does seem to me that you of anyone should understand the point of not having to disclose certain things in order to participate in life activities. Having a mental illness or a physical illness should not exclude you from life.
Now if you are talking about Epilepsy, or Diabetes, or Heart conditions well then normally a person with those types of things carries a card or wears a bracelet and it will be simple to deal with if ever there becomes a situation where something dangerous might happen.
I apologize if this looks like I am boiling over, but trust me (GG) I am far from that point. I am merely discussing the reasons I find it unacceptable to require a person to disclose their prescribed medications in order to participate in paranormal investigating....
However I suppose there is also the decision I can make in choosing not to participate in a group that feels it is something they cannot live without. I prefer a group who takes it on good faith that I will not be doing anything to put myself or them into harms way based on my personal conditions.
That is the point of my disagreeing with you Kimberly and I have not once been offensive or rude to you. Just to the point and matter of fact. I do in fact strongly disagree with the idea, and that is simply that.
One other thing you might be more interested in including in your expectations if you are going to expect this information is prior legal problems. I don't feel it would be necessary but perhaps those who are so concerned about anything about anyone else that might somehow effect them may need that in order to feel ok with allowing them to hunt with them.
My point? Its a slippery slope.....
All respect given, just an explanation as to why it is an issue I disagree with.....
Joined: Jul 11, 2006 Posts: 659 Location: Riverdale, Ga
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:
I have two foster kids in my house along with my own 3 kids who are still at home and if I did not feel the need to protect them, I swear they would have gone back a long time ago. Pardon my use of words, but I have had to basically bare my butt to the state and continue to walk around in a fish bowl to protect these kids and keep them safe and warm. If I decide once a week to not answer my phone or if I am in the shower and do not hear it, the people show up at my door. This is a neccesity of life, ghost hunting is not. If you feel unsafe out on hunts with strangers, THEN DON'T GO. Plain and simple, no med list and no hurt feelings and no intrusion on people's privacy (no matter where you work and what you know). I guess it is true when they say it is not what you know, but who you know. Add on::: I wanted to add this morning that I saw a show last night on serial murderer John Gacy. He was into all sorts of political work and was even pictured with Mrs. Jimmy Carter, yes, the ex-president's wife, for all of his wonderful political contributes. He was even a clown at little kid's parties. Everyone checked him out... He was (oh how do you say) Normal !! He was not on any meds at all............. (Music from Jaws playnig in background)
Joined: May 18, 2004 Posts: 1573 Location: metro ATL
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject:
goohsmom wrote:
Along with the waiver, I think each team member should sign an agreement to proper etiquette during the investigation, and an agreement to not partake of any mood altering substances at least two hours prior to an investigation. Plus, the agreement that the team leader (would that be the IC?) has the right to remove any team member from the investigation if their behavior warrants it.
Also, I know you want to prevent cliques and rotate teams, but is there going to be any way for someone to discreetly let you know if there are people they absolutely do NOT want to investigate with. Since investigating includes dropping shields for so many people, it would be helpful to know you wouldn't be forced to investigate with someone you truly distrusted (as opposed to someone you didn't know) without being dropped from the investigating rolls.
Pam
Kudos Pam, I agree as well,about the proper etiquette and the not partaking in any mind altering substances(like alcohol), for many reasons, including safety wise, before, or during an investigation.
Very good topic indeed! Being tipsy could lead to injury or being more open to something negative. _________________ Heidi
Your lost friends are not dead, but gone before, advanced a stage or two upon that road which you must travel in the steps they trod.
Joined: Feb 14, 2004 Posts: 662 Location: The Other Side
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject:
Heidi wrote:
Being tipsy could lead to injury or being more open to something negative.
Like finding a Colt 45 bottle and having the spirits cuss you out for singing...right, Heidi?
No...we weren't drinking that night. But someone had to have been at some point in that cemetery. _________________ PRG
Be Afraid of the Living...not the Dead
When you require medical information from a member you assume the responsibilty of confidentiality. Any disclosure of the information that causes deformation of charactor to the member spells lawsuit. IMO just let it be known the IC is in charge and will be enforced by LE if removal from a hunt is justified. IMO
Joined: Sep 19, 2005 Posts: 127 Location: Lilburn, Ga
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: Investigation Protocal
How I do love a heated discussion between two independant, spirited woman. Its always refreshing to see that kind of enthusiasm in a thread . I would ,however, like to move forward with the task at hand. Setting a protocal that is befitting of a group with the name regognition, status, and aclaim that the Hounds enjoy. I am new to organized investigating, but am freakishly obsessedwith having a set ands acceptable protocal. As Denisee has pointed out, our reputation is on the line every single time we visit a location for an investigation. Every time we introduce ourselves as a member or representative of Ghosthounds we represent the entire group, and we would serve ourselves well to have each and every member participating on investigations to "be on the same page". That being said would anyone like to start throwing out more ideas for acceptable or not acceptable protocal for a Ghosthounds investigation?
Finally read the post. Like I told some one, damned if you do damned if you do not.
My personal preferance is depending upon the investigation and what role I will be playing. If I am just an investigator I prefer a mature crowd. If I am an acting mental medium then i want to insure everyone is in a good frame of mind and the reports will be handled in a proffesional manner. If I am acting as a physical medium, then that includes only a very few individuals. At that level the participants need to be trusted with my life and discreation. Few and far between.
Joined: May 18, 2004 Posts: 1573 Location: metro ATL
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:
PatrickRsGhost wrote:
Heidi wrote:
Being tipsy could lead to injury or being more open to something negative.
Like finding a Colt 45 bottle and having the spirits cuss you out for singing...right, Heidi?
No...we weren't drinking that night. But someone had to have been at some point in that cemetery.
that was truly something PR, an investigation I wont ever forget. _________________ Heidi
Your lost friends are not dead, but gone before, advanced a stage or two upon that road which you must travel in the steps they trod.
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My opinion is that if someone is drinking or nodding out from herion, they should not go on the hunt. If you are under a doctor's care, that is your private buisness.
Add on::: I wanted to add this morning that I saw a show last night on serial murderer John Gacy. He was into all sorts of political work and was even pictured with Mrs. Jimmy Carter, yes, the ex-president's wife, for all of his wonderful political contributes. He was even a clown at little kid's parties. Everyone checked him out... He was (oh how do you say) Normal !! He was not on any meds at all............. (Music from Jaws playnig in background)
