Joined: Nov 10, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: Calhoun, Georgia
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:44 am Post subject:
This is quite "THE" topic of discussion, yes? I have finally after 2 days finished reading the 4 pages of posts (so that anything I may add to that be an addition and not repetitive or inane, hopefully my 2cents will at least meet one of those 2 criteria).
I will not try to even pretend to understand some of the more difficult, extensive and rather confusing(at least for me) aspects of applying principals of physics (quantum and otherwise) to this topic(maybe its just me but I seem to get the feeling at certain points in having read all of this that we have become less sure of our reality than we have at proving or disproving a reailty, dimension, plane, etc. from which ghosts originate or whatever
I do however find fascinating the concept of elementary (comparitively speaking) sciences and its effects upon eternity from a theological standpoint (which is my area expertise)...so I have done some study as to how some of all of this relates to biblical eternity. Though I must admit that my interest in this particular subject as it pertains to this sight and my faith, well I am still adjusting what I have learned biblically to what I am learning "hound-wise"...so my references might perhaps seem "sketchy" at some points (which i will be happy to add as i learn to "connect the dots" between the 2.).
As I understand from my biblical studies (including Apocryphal books as well texts of historical Hebrew and early Christian writings) that there is a dimension beyond this known 3 dimentional world that I will simply refer to as eternity (Heaven, Hell, paradise , purgatory and all other places eternal where the "Dead" dwell or orginate from). But the one constant i have gleaned from this is that this "place" (s) so to speak exists beyond time. Which would make sense as who would want to have to do anything for eternity if there were time set to it (being beings of creativity, curiosity, and purpose, even pleasant activities would become the very defintion of hell if done for 100 years or 1000, or 10,000...you get the idea)?
My point here being that from outside of time it is no small thing to interject oneself into time, even if briefly. That the energy expenditure to do so is at the least costly depending upon the available energy in this dimension. Perhaps that or the lack thereof is what possibly determines the manifestation on this side (because if it cannot be drawn from or used from this side it must be paid from that side and that is drawn from the source itself i.e., the one manifesting. This could perhaps account for the differences in such things as mists, orbs, apparitions, shadows, etc.
It has been discovered that the Ark of the Covenant was (is) basically a giant battery, drawing power from the static electricity in the air! This would or could suggest that even God himself draws upon this said power to maifest himself into this time contained (restricted) dimension. The Shekinnah (the fire of God, The Pillar in the wilderness that rested upon the Ark, etc.) is basically the "apparition" of the creator of the Universe.
It is perhaps also of a consideration to think what physical differences there are between this world and the next. I heard a sermon by one evangelist that said there could perhaps be as many as 10 dimensions consisting of the reality of eternity (he did not cite his source as it was a part of a sermon and most Christians want to get to the feel good part of such a message rather than consider the validity of such a statement) as opposed to our 3 in this one. But the biblical record states in Isaiah 6 in speaking of Angelic beings having 6 wings. imagine what kind atmosphere must exist that a being be required 6 wings to operate in it?! But my point is that there is always will be intangibles we won't know until we cross into eternity and understand the principals of that reality and how they apply to there manifestation in this one. The principals will be the same, it is just learning how to apply those principals into a context (reality) that we have yet to understand.
As for the reference to Mae-Be's two spirtual "escorts". I find that interesting, as I heard someone else speak a message one time that spoke of seeing 2 Angelic beings come and escort the spirit of a loved one from death into eternity, and he spoke of the "silver cord being loosed" (Eccl. 12: 6, silver is always representative of redemption biblically speaking, and refers to how the soul and spirit are tied to the physical being) as they took this individual. I have recently lost my mother and know that for the week leading up to her death she had many visitors that we could not see. And I am fairly certain that sometime before her actual "death" she was escorted from this world to the next. I saw exactly what you described...she left even before her heart stopped.
I hope I haven't been too boring or too "feely" or even too much of an imposition by expressing aspects of faith. I simply find the correlation between the biblical eternity and this particular topic related closely enough that I couldn't resist sharing some of my findings.
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:23 am Post subject:
I find your statement about the Ark to be interesting do you have any links that I could read on this subject? _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Joined: Nov 10, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: Calhoun, Georgia
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:11 am Post subject:
Yeah, I got some papers laying around somewhere (my filing system isn't as effecient as it should be). Give me a day or 2 and I'll pass that along to you (btw, you want that posted here or a PM?).
The research of that was done either at Hebrew University or the Temple Institute in Jerusalem. They reconstructed a minature version of the Ark as per the design instruction in the bible. They began to find that if it sat for any period of time unattended, that anyone who touched it would get a rather severe shock (even at a smaller size it knocked them to the ground on several instances).
The other thing that was found was that when the staves were put through the sides for transportation (again per the biblical instruction) these acted as a ground and therefore the Ark was no longer dangerous. This would or could account for a practical explanation of the biblical story of Uzzah being killed by touching the Ark (II Sam 6: 6, 7). They were transporting the Ark on an oxcart and not by the staves.
Additionally, rabbinical literature as well as Hebraic oral tradition gives examples of how there were times and seasons when the Ark was NOT to be approached under any circumstance under the threat of death (by God), and the allusion to during these said periods that fire (electrical arching?) would leap off of the Ark and onto the walls and nearby objects of the Temple.
I will try to get as many references and sources pertaining to all of this as soon as possible and pass that along to you.
Joined: Oct 31, 2005 Posts: 47 Location: Shreveport, La.
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:12 am Post subject:
ghost geek wrote:
And it was pointed out earlier that if the "soul energy" was real, we should be able to detect it. To which I agree. But I also wonder if any serious study to detect an energy field leaving the body at the moment of death has ever been conducted... say with a terminally ill patient. I mean thats gonna be a tough one to approach a family with - "We know your loved one is about to die, so do you mind if we wire up their bed with a bunch of instruments and cameras to try and collect evidence of existance of the soul when the moment of death occurs?"
And while that would make for an interesting study, I know I could never sit there monitoring instruments; waiting for someone to die. Even if I didn't know them personally. That would just be way too depressing and sad.
You know, I am sort of surprised that this hasn't been done yet. Not that I think there's so many out there that care more for their research than human life, but that there hasn't been a researcher that's hooked himself up to record his death knowing he was about to pass. Sort of a "Brainstorm" type of situation, if you remember that movie. I mean if nothing else there has been paranormal researchers that has died but hasn't attempted something (that I know of). It just seems like somewhere along the way one of the people would somehow have done this leaving word with someone else to come collect data. It's odd to think that, but there has been people very obsessed and I'd figure they'd do something.
I believe there's something to it all, but what I tend to wonder is why do people mostly see famous people, people they know, or see people that go along with the history of a place. Nobody has ever seen a caveman for instance that I'm aware of. My point of view is that's where a lot of skeptics come from is that most sightings seem convenient. It's like if you have in mind what you're looking for you might go as far as make yourself see it. Again this is just what I feel the skeptic's point of view is, it's not my point of view.
What a great thread GG! I too subcribe to the second law of thermodynamics school of thought. In those simple sentances it captures a world of scientific possibilities. Zero Point Energy is an excting field that researchers have been desperatly trying to calculate. Not if, but when this is more fully understood, one will see further researchable areas in parasycology.
Joined: Jul 11, 2006 Posts: 659 Location: Riverdale, Ga
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject:
I wanted to bump this back up also because it is incredible to me that I ever since I took my first Chemistry class, I always said the same thing with respect to matter cannot be created or destroyed and I am glad you gave em hell Patrick. Today is the first time I ever saw this post and I just wanted to respond.
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: Just to add to this discussion...
I might add, though not in a scientific way per se, that out of body experiences, near death experiences and astral travel all point to there being "more" beyond the physical body...that we in fact exist in some other form "within the physical body."
I had this discussion at work about a decade ago. Here are three experiences:
1) One young man recounted a story of when he was on the playground at his elementary school. He slipped on ice and fell hard to the ground. The fall was so strong, that he was knocked unconscious, but during this time he was floating above the playground monitor and the kids that had encircled him. He floated back down and into his body and "came to."
2) Another man recalled his childhood experiences of being a sickly child, which caused him to spend much time in the hospital. As he was bored, he practiced leaving his body at night, and wandering the hospital halls. This soon lead to him leaving the hospital and returning home at night in "spirit body." One night he went back home and went in his sister's bedroom. Upon entering it, she sat up and called out his name. She knew he was there, but could not see him.
3) I was in a time of meditation one night years ago, and I floated up and out of my body. It freaked me out so bad, that I panicked in trying to get back into my body. I couldn't speak or move my body, and I tried desperately to awaken my sleeping wife. It confirmed for me that there is more than what we see physically.
In fact, I would like to ask a few questions about the physical world which we place so much worth in. If truth is true, then to me it must be unchanging - eternal. And if truth is eternal, what does that say about all that we see with our physical eyes? Isn't everything that is physical passing away? What is truth, then? Could the physical be the illusion, and spirit be eternal?
Joined: Jul 11, 2006 Posts: 659 Location: Riverdale, Ga
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:15 am Post subject:
OK DuPlatt you sound like Dr. Hall, my philosophy teacher, and I could not have said it better myself;.I totally agree. The same thing happened to me when I was 10 years old. I was on the merry-go-round after lunch. There were way too many kids on it but anyway I heard this very loud crack and suddenly I was in the air and could see all the kids below me on the merry-go-round and I watched this girl fall into the mud and it appeared to be in slow motion. All of a sudden I was in the worst pain I have ever experienced to date (and I have 6 children). It took me a second to realize what was happening because I saw the person fall. How could it have been me? I was the only girl laying in the mud and I will never forget it. I do not care what any skeptic says. Until they have their own experience, they are talking out their behinds.
Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 3709 Location: Houston Texas area
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:35 am Post subject:
By the way a little update to this since it has been brought back up.
Fact: Matter can be destroyed in the fact that it can be turned into pure energy.
Example: Matter/Antimatter collision turns both particles into pure energy.
Fact: Energy can spontaniously decay into matter.
Example: High energy ray decaying into an Alpha particle.
^^^ Nit picks... _________________ Based on the condition that you are incapable of moving at a high velocity with large animals of the canine species, then you shall be required to remain in a location that is in the general vicinity of the front door of your domicile.
Wacky, your so crazy. Are you positive about this law? Where did you quote it from? I do not want to say you are wrong as I am not an expert, but please help me to become better informed.
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: Great!
Wackywizjr wrote:
Fact: Matter can be destroyed in the fact that it can be turned into pure energy.
Fact: Energy can spontaniously decay into matter.
Well, great! This sounds like the bad energy people carry around with them will be done away with (thank God), and their souls shall be "pure" energy! LOL Just kidding...
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: EbbSMom...
ebbsmom wrote:
OK DuPlatt you sound like Dr. Hall, my philosophy teacher, and I could not have said it better myself;.I totally agree. The same thing happened to me when I was 10 years old. I was on the merry-go-round after lunch. There were way too many kids on it but anyway I heard this very loud crack and suddenly I was in the air and could see all the kids below me on the merry-go-round and I watched this girl fall into the mud and it appeared to be in slow motion. All of a sudden I was in the worst pain I have ever experienced to date (and I have 6 children). It took me a second to realize what was happening because I saw the person fall. How could it have been me? I was the only girl laying in the mud and I will never forget it. I do not care what any skeptic says. Until they have their own experience, they are talking out their behinds.
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